So you could go point for point for rebuttal but don’t and instead write 5 paragraphs of arm waving and whataboutism - “what about other old institutions” - I don’t care, we’re talking about the church.

The comment I replied to, you said “considerable force for good for centuries” now you want to limit it to 2025?

Go ahead and rebut how millions of lives were lost by actively sabotaging condom use and every other crime I mentioned.

I said they’re an overall negative, anti-human institution with a long well documented history of points to back it up.

I didn’t say “nothing good” has come out, beautiful flowers come out of excrement too.

You held on to the “dark ages” - but skipped over the destruction of knowledge that led to them and you wrote what you consider a rebuttal. So let’s talk about that:

They didn’t systematically keep fuck all.

Some scribes kept some books, the ones they could hide from the church. Most of the old writings of classical authors have been lost.

Between 500-1000AD the Church systematically destroyed classical libraries and learning centers. The burning of the Library of Alexandria and closure of philosophical schools eliminated centuries of knowledge in science, mathematics, and philosophy.

The Church controlled virtually all education, restricting literacy to clergy and limiting curriculum to religious doctrine.

Church prohibited dissection and medical research, leading to the loss of advanced Roman medical knowledge. Illness attributed to sin rather than natural causes, impeding medical advancement for centuries.

The Church burned books, destroyed manuscripts, and executed or exiled intellectuals who challenged religious orthodoxy.

It’s an obscene rewriting of history to thank the executioner for the rivers of blood that fed what came after.

I have no idea what you’re basing this comment on.

The sins of the catholic church are many and global and as large and unforgivable as their wealth and reach and history:

From the very beginning they were antithetical to plurality - soon as they got power first order of business was the destruction of classical Hellenistic learning centres.

Then crusades, inquisitions, colonialism and forced conversions, complicit in slavery, the witch trials, and interference with politics all over the world.

Opposition to human rights, anti-science (dark ages anyone), support for dictatorships, residential school systems targeting indigenous children, and the ongoing sexual abuse crisis with institutional cover-ups.

And their worst crime of the modern era: their response to the AIDS crisis in the 1980s.

Strict opposition to condom use (in fact actively lobbied against condom distribution and sex education) even as HIV/AIDS spread globally - particularly devastating in heavily Catholic regions like sub-Saharan Africa, the Philippines, and Latin America where the Church wielded significant influence over public health policy (as they still do). Millions of infections and deaths directly attributed to this crime against humanity.

But yes, “force for good”.

Probably simpler maths than that: the many hundreds of millions that have been flowing from the gulf states and the domestic oil industry can’t compete with musk’s contributions and his terrible polling closed the deal. More money, more better.

Wondering how long has this been cooking? A year or so ago musk started attacking signal for no discernible reason and recommending telegram instead.